Over the duration of a successful career as a Chartered Accountant, Suliyat Olalekan has learned the value of hard work, commitment and, above all, kindness From as far back as she can remember, Suliyat Olalekan wanted to become a Chartered Accountant. “I was really good at maths from a very young age and I was always very certain that I wanted to have a career as an accountant,” says Olalekan.  “I didn’t want to be an academic, studying mathematics or statistics in a university. I wanted to apply my skills in the real world. Accountancy seemed to me to offer a lot of possibilities, but I can’t say I had any real sense back then of what the role would actually involve day-to-day.” Born in southwestern Nigeria, Olalekan was raised in a tight-knit family in Ibadan, the capital of Oyo State. One of five siblings, she moved to Ireland as a teenager, settling in south Dublin, and went on to study Leaving Cert Accounting.   Though Olalekan had “absolute conviction” about her career aspirations, acclimatising to the Irish way of life after relocating from Ibadan as a young teen came as a culture shock. “I found the education system in Ireland fantastic, but it was very different to the education I had experienced in Nigeria, which was highly academic,” she says.  “When I started secondary school in Ireland, I was ahead of the syllabus so it was an easy transition starting out. I was able to focus instead on integrating socially and learning about the culture and way of life in this new country that was so different.” Learning to adapt at a young age has stood to Olalekan over the course of an accomplished career as a Chartered Accountant that has taken her from practice to industry, and from Dublin to London. “It is so important to do your research in any profession. This is my go-to approach when I am considering a potential new role, or finding my feet in a new job, and it’s the reason I think I’ve been able to adapt well to new roles and responsibilities,” she says. “I reach out to people and lean into my network, so that I can find out as much as I can about a new role on offer—and not just the role itself, but the organisation, and the wider industry. The same goes for how I approach my work day-to-day. I always try to learn from other people who are experts in their role, their field, or sector.  “If I need advice on a tax issue, for example, I will go to a tax expert—and I never jump into anything. When I start a new job, I stand back and take stock of what is happening around me; what the dynamics are; how things work. I never dive in. I take my time and I do my research. This balanced approach has worked well for me in my career.” Now Chief Accountant at SFL Corporation, an international NYSE-listed maritime company, Olalekan manages a team in London and Oslo responsible for accounting and reporting on US Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (US GAAP).  She began her career in practice, training with Deloitte in Ireland after graduating from Dublin Business School in 2007 with a first-class honours degree in accounting and finance. “I knew I wanted to train with a ‘Big Four’ firm and I really enjoyed my time with Deloitte. Joining their Audit Graduate Programme was a really wonderful start to my career and they sponsored my Master of Accounting at UCD Michael Smurfit Graduate School of Business. “From there, I went straight into the Final Admitting Examination (FAE) with Chartered Accountants Ireland in 2012 —and then I reached a point where I wasn’t quite sure what I wanted to do next.” Rather than mapping out a strict career plan, Olalekan instead decided to hang back and gain more experience where she was, before deciding on her next move.  “A lot of my friends and peers around that time were moving to Australia, the Cayman Islands, Bermuda — and thinking ahead to ‘what’s next?’ I was happy enough where I was though, so I stayed with Deloitte, moving from Audit Senior on to Assistant Manager and then Manager.” It was when Olalekan was offered a secondment with Bank of Ireland that she got her first taste of working life beyond practice. “I got this fantastic opportunity to see what it was like on the ‘other side’ working in capital investment, and I found I really enjoyed it,” she says. The experience prompted Olalekan to look further afield and, when she decided to relocate to London in 2014, she found herself open to a move into shipping – a sector she had no experience in at the time. “It was my brother who told me about this job as Group Reporting Manager with SFL Corporation and, straight away, I was intrigued,” she says. “I knew nothing about the maritime sector at the time, but shipping is such a traditional and tangible industry. I thought ‘that’s how food gets to my table and how furniture gets to my home’.  “SFL Corporation is also listed in the US, which meant I could get experience in US GAAP. I already had experience in UK GAAP and International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS) in Ireland. I thought US GAAP would be a challenge that would really stand to me.” Olalekan was promoted to her current role as Chief Accountant with SFL Corporation in London in 2017. “They have been very persuasive in keeping me, and I really enjoy the work I do here because it is just so interesting,” she says. “My day-to-day can go from journal approvals on really important qualitative items to filing statements to the US Securities and Exchange Commission’s EDGAR [Electronic Data Gathering, Analysis, and Retrieval] system. “I’m involved in preparing financial data for press releases, and in constantly reviewing and ensuring the accuracy of the information we make available to the public. I advise our commercial and operational teams on the accounting implications of new business contracts and potential transactions. My role is so varied and I find that incredibly rewarding professionally.” As her career has progressed, Olalekan has settled into an open, approachable leadership style centred on building strong relationships with the people on her team, as well as those she reports to and colleagues in the wider organisation. “There are many ways you can approach leadership and different styles work for different people—but I have always leaned into genuine, positive relationships and that continues to work really well for me to this day. “I make sure that I am seen as a ‘can-do’ person; someone people won’t hesitate to approach to ask for help. This has been very beneficial because people know I don’t shy away from work and that I’m not afraid of challenges.  “In any new role, you can’t know everything straight away. That is what growing and learning as a professional is all about. If you are seen as a positive can-do person who can be relied on to work hard, it is more likely that you will be offered promotions because your managers will trust that, even if you are not 100 percent ready, you will rise to the occasion, learn, and do what is needed.” Approachability, and a willingness to help others and collaborate to solve problems, is equally important for managers who want to support, encourage, and get the best from the people on their team. “Just as my managers know they can trust me, my team learns the importance of trustworthiness from me. It creates a positive chain reaction,” says Olalekan.  “They know they can come to me with problems and challenges, and that means they are also more likely to come to me with ideas, insights and solutions that can benefit the business. That is very rewarding for me as a manager.” A mother to two young children, Olalekan still finds time outside her work and home commitments to support her profession. A committed member of the London Society of Chartered Accountants Ireland, she was among four members recently elected to Council. “I am honoured to have been elected and to have the opportunity to give something back to the profession that has been so good to me in my career,” she says. “We train people to be robust, to be intimate with numbers, to be able to analyse the data and make sense of the figures. You don’t need to be the CFO of a FTSE 100 to be a success in this profession.  “My own ambition now is to add value to the organisation I work for, and support the people I work with. Even though I was so sure so young that I wanted to be an accountant, I couldn’t have known then how fulfilling my career would turn out to be. I am exactly where I want to be.”  

Over the course of a successful 30-year career in international business, Shane Fitzsimons has refined a tried-and-tested approach to hitting the ground running in any new role. Now CFO and Executive Vice President at AIG Inc in the US, he talks us through the most important professional lessons he has learned over the years. “Keep your ears open, talk to people, pay attention to how things are done around you and adapt.”  For Shane Fitzsimons, the recently appointed Chief Financial Officer and Executive Vice President at American International Group (AIG) Inc, showing curiosity, trustworthiness and commitment to the business’ success really matters in any new role.  Over the course of a highly successful 30-year career in global business, Fitzsimons has refined a ‘go-to’ approach to hitting the ground running in a new position—no matter the business, industry or location. “In a lot of ways, you could say that getting off to the right start comes down to being a good listener. It’s important to go into any new situation with an open mind and be willing to learn about what’s around you,” he says. “Preconceptions will only ever get in the way and, when it boils down to it, people the world over generally share the same motivations. They want to know that they can trust you, that you can get things done, and that the success of the business is your number one priority.” Born in Belfast and raised in Cork, Fitzsimons has risen through the ranks at global companies like General Electric, Tata Group and now AIG over the course of a career that has taken him from Ireland to Europe, and on to the US, and Asia. Profound advice Every step of the way, he has continued to heed the “profound” advice he received at a pivotal point in his early years at General Electric while he was an analyst at the company’s headquarters in Connecticut. “I was about four months into this one-year assignment in Financial Planning and Analysis and I was gung-ho about the role, working 14- to 16-hour days, because here I was at the company’s corporate headquarters with the opportunity to be noticed by Jack Welch (then Chair and CEO of General Electric) and other senior people,” he says. “I wanted to demonstrate my commitment and my work ethic. Then, one day, the head of FP&A called me into his office. He’d noticed the long hours I’d been working. I was expecting praise.  “Instead, he sat me down and said: ‘I see you’re working these long hours and I’ve got to tell you: if you can’t manage the job I’ve given you in less than the working day, I can’t give you anything bigger to do.’” This advice has since become Fitzsimons’ guiding philosophy, he explains: “If you can’t take a job – even the most difficult job – boil it down, simplify it, and improve how it’s done, you’re not ready to move to a more senior role because you haven’t demonstrated a capacity to grow.” Productivity & performance That conversation prompted Fitzsimons to re-think his approach to productivity and performance.  “I had to reflect on how I could use my working time more effectively to do the job at hand while also getting to know other parts of the business. From that point onwards, I started to look at everything from the point-of-view of efficiency,” he says. “It was really quite profound. Even now with my team here at AIG, we have a major focus on supporting efficiency in the wider business.  “We obviously focus on the numbers—on traditional activities like accounting, treasury and tax—but we also see ourselves as an operational partner to the wider business with an important role to play in driving efficiency and supporting strategy and process improvement.” In this respect, Fitzsimons sees finance as an operational ‘enabler’ in business. “We play a very important role in control and governance, obviously, but we don’t see ourselves as the ‘checkers’,” he says.  “That’s why words like ‘expediting’ are so important to me – because finance is an enabler. Our role is really to help the wider business to be successful in the markets in which we operate.” Even at the earliest point in his career, Fitzsimons was already aware of the need to gain hands-on experience in the cut and thrust of the commercial world.  While completing his training with Chartered Accountants Ireland, he worked with Fitzsimons Flynn & Co., the practice run by his late father Garry, also a Chartered Accountant, from three locations in Cork city, Kinsale and Bandon. “I left Ireland pretty quickly. At the time, there weren’t many options to progress your career unless you were willing to travel and accountancy seemed like a very good career to take on the road with you.” From practice to industry Fitzsimons first moved to the Netherlands in 1990 for a six-month assignment with Coopers & Lybrand (now PwC) and would go on to spend a decade in the country, moving out of audit practice in 1994 to join GE Plastics in Bergen op Zoom.  “My father had always said that, to be a really good accountant, I would need experience in industry. He encouraged me to make the move early in my career, so, when I came across a finance role with GE, I decided to take it,” he said. Then a $5 billion subsidiary of General Electric, the US-headquartered multinational, GE Plastics had opened a manufacturing plant in Bergen op Zoom in 1971. By 1994, the site had become a key part of GE’s global operations, serving customers internationally. “I started in general accounting, consolidation, things like that, and quickly realised that, to progress my career, I would need to relocate to GE headquarters in the US and gain experience in areas like FP&A and commercial finance,” Fitzsimons says. He made the move in 2000, spending a year at GE’s Fairfield headquarters in Connecticut before heading southwest to Ohio to take up the role of Group FP&A Leader for Aviation. “That was a huge step up for me in terms of role and responsibility. It was a very formative period in aviation. The industry was heavily impacted by 9/11 and I learned a lot working with leaders like Dave Calhoun (now CEO and President of Boeing),” says Fitzsimons. “I worked very closely with Dave and other great leaders for four years, learning from them, and I was then asked to return to GE’s Connecticut headquarters as FP&A leader for the company. I stayed there for seven years.” Having weathered the worst of the financial crisis helming GE’s FP&A function, Fitzsimons was ready for “something new.” Now aged 44, he had already forged a successful career spanning industry and practice in Europe and the US.  So, what next? “Asia,” says Fitzsimons. “It was missing on my resume.”  When an opportunity came up with GE in Hong Kong, he decided to take it and, in all, spent six years in Hong Kong, initially as GE’s Chief Financial Officer for Global Growth and Operations, followed by Senior Vice-President of Global Operations.  “Then I turned 50 and decided to do what I’d always advised people never to do. I took time off. I’d been working since I was 18. I kind of needed a break. It was the right choice for me,” he says. After his sabbatical, Fitzsimons was on the move again—this time to Mumbai on India’s west coast.  There, he took up the position of Chief Synergy Officer at Tata Sons, the private principal investment holding company for Tata Group, India’s diversified “coffee-to-cars” conglomerate with operations in more than 100 countries. “I’ve moved around a lot over the years and what I’ve found is that there are more similarities between businesses and people around the world than you might expect,” Fitzsimons says.  “Often, you’ll find that the overriding priority for most people is to create a better future for their kids. That’s a very unifying motivation. “Another unifier is that you will always find people in a new company or situation who are willing to help you. Sometimes these folks will be buried in the organisation. They are the people who really want to help the company succeed. They’re willing to accept you early on and help you find your way.” This experience has taught Fitzsimons the importance of getting to know people in any new organisation he joins “at all levels.” “I don’t just want to get to know my direct reports, I want to get to know the people who work for them. I want to get to know people working in other parts of the business. Demonstrating your interest, your curiosity, is really important – and really valuable. People notice it.” An early win An early win can also help to create the right impression in a new role. “It’s important to be able to make a visible difference at the outset,” Fitzsimons says.  “It doesn’t have to be a big win, but it matters that people see it. It lets them know that you have the right intentions; that you’re here to execute and make the company better.” Fitzsimons spent 18 months with Tata Group, leading efforts to create synergies across the group’s diverse set of businesses. “At that stage, it was time to go back to the States. My family wanted to be in the US. The opportunity to join AIG came up in July 2019 and I jumped at it,” he says. Fitzsimons’ first role with AIG was as Global Head of Shared Services, based in New York. At the time, AIG’s Global Chief Operating Officer and Chief Executive Officer of General Insurance was Peter Zaffino, who is now the company’s Chair and CEO. “The shared services role attracted me, but, more than that, I really wanted to work with Peter,” Fitzsimons says.  Global Head of Shared Services was a newly created role at AIG, established to act as a single point of accountability for all key operational and financial capabilities across the organisation. “My biggest motivator right the way through my career has been the opportunity to just dig in and solve complex operational problems as part of a team, and I knew this role would be very operational, which would allow me to get involved in a lot of different aspects of the business,” says Fitzsimons.  “I enjoy breaking problems down into little pieces, finding the right operating cadences and rhythms, and the pure satisfaction you get when you find a solution—especially when you’re working at a pace that’s not necessarily comfortable, but it works.” The value of joining AIG in the shared services role and working with Peter Zaffino as a leader became quickly apparent.  Within five months, Fitzsimons took on the additional role of Global Head of Financial Planning and Analysis and three months after that, he joined the highest ranks of AIG senior management when he became Executive Vice President and Chief Administrative Officer in March 2021—and a member of the company’s 12-strong executive leadership team.  In October 2021, AIG announced that Fitzsimons would transition to the role of Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer by January 2022. In his new role as Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, he leads hundreds of financial professionals across the globe who are supporting AIG’s priorities—from delivery on AIG’s financial performance objectives, to the separation of the Life and Retirement business from AIG, the execution of AIG’s budget and capital plans, and proactive engagement with investors and other stakeholders. Future plans & priorities “My biggest career goal now with AIG is to be the best CFO I can be; to cultivate and lead our diverse finance team in a way that allows each member to meet their own aspirations; and support the leaders who have placed their trust in me to be successful,” says Fitzsimons. A member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants Ireland since 1993 and a fellow since 2003, Fitzsimons’ career has taken him from Ireland to Europe, and on to the US and Asia. Despite his success in different industries, however, he didn’t have a “concrete” career plan starting out. “I always had ideas about the experiences I wanted to collect along the way, but I don’t think I ever had a set plan,” he says.  “My father had taught me the importance of gaining industry experience as an accountant, so you would have domain knowledge as a business advisor working in practice, but I found my niche in industry and that’s shaped my career. “Now, ultimately, my priority in my current role with AIG is to eventually leave the business better than I found it. It’s also very important for me personally to build a diverse and high-performing team within the finance function.  “My team is about 60 percent gender-diverse already, which is a high figure for leadership teams in financial services. The goal now is to build on all diversity within the finance team and right the way through the organisation.” Team dynamics For Fitzsimons, a healthy, diverse, and balanced team dynamic is essential to achieving successful outcomes – and there is no place for ‘hands-off’ leadership in this respect.  “Everything is about the team and how the team works together. I actually never use the word ‘manager’ in the sense that colleagues need to be constantly instructed,” he says. “Everyone needs to play an active role. Everybody’s got to have defined responsibilities. They must see themselves and their role as part of the team.” As Fitzsimons sees it, the ideal team should comprise a group of people with diverse experience and backgrounds. “They need to be able to communicate well with each other to be successful and ambitious,” he says.  “I always say that a perfect team has five people on it who think they can do my job and two who probably can. What’s important is the belief that they’re not working in silos and that they’re paying attention to the big picture. It’s a good dynamic.”

Pat O’Neill outlines his priorities for the year ahead, including the need to increase the supply of accounting talent nationwide and reach out to members globally post-pandemic.  As Pat O’Neill begins his term as President of Chartered Accountants Ireland, his driving focus will be on tackling the ongoing capacity constraints facing the profession. Speaking at his election by members at the Institute’s 134th AGM in Dublin recently, O’Neill pointed to the urgent need to address the ongoing shortage of critical accountancy skills in the Irish labour market. “Despite the recent and current challenges of the pandemic and the re-emergence of significant inflationary pressures, the economy continues to grow,” O’Neill told attendees at the AGM on Friday, 20 May.  “Our economic pillars of large-scale foreign direct investment and successful domestic business require appropriate levels of accounting talent, both within their organisations and also in the accounting profession upon which they rely for their transactional and regulatory compliance needs.”  Despite this fundamental need, however, the reliable supply of accounting talent continued to be disrupted by structural issues requiring urgent action, O’Neill said. “If we don’t work hard to tackle significant issues facing accounting supply in this country relating to education, qualifications and permits, this ongoing shortage could have a significant impact on businesses here, both indigenous and FDI, potentially harming the wider economy in the future.” Second-level syllabus One of the primary factors impeding the supply of accounting talent nationwide is the accounting syllabus at secondary level. “The syllabus was introduced over 25 years ago,” said O’Neill.  “Not only does this mean that our students are being taught material and concepts, which are now somewhat obsolete, but the syllabus also does little to introduce our young people to the breadth of what the modern accountant’s role actually is—and how they add value to businesses, the economy, and society as a whole.”   It is crucial that the syllabus be reviewed, refreshed, and made “truly fit for purpose” in the 21st century, O’Neill said.   “Without this, students will be deterred from pursuing further studies and a career in accounting due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what accountancy involves and the career opportunities and choices it provides,” he said.  “Another consequence is that we have an insufficient number of students emerging from second level through third level and into professional qualifications. Ultimately, this means Ireland won’t have enough ‘bench-strength’ to support Irish businesses—but, thankfully, it is within our power to create positive change now.”   Departmental submission The Institute, under the auspices of the Consultative Committee of Accountancy Bodies-Ireland, last year made a submission on this matter to the Department of Education, including the findings of its accounting syllabus review.   “The National Council for Curriculum and Assessment has published its Report on its Senior Cycle Review and, whilst we are heartened that reform of the senior cycle is now recognised as necessary, the pace of change is just too slow,” O’Neill said.   “It has taken four years to reach this stage and it will likely be 2027 by the time we see changes coming through in the first tranche of subjects, which are still to be determined.  “Unfortunately, during this time, the issues facing Irish businesses in terms of the lack of supply of accounting talent are only likely to worsen.”  As it stands, the accountancy profession is already included on the Government’s Critical Skills Occupations List.  Compiled by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the list catalogues professions required for the proper functioning of the economy, which are being impacted by a shortage of qualifications, experience or skills. The Northern Ireland Executive has also listed accountancy as an in-demand skill north of the border. Recognition of qualifications In addressing the capacity issue, O’Neill also referenced the need to ensure that the needs of business and the profession are met through the adequate recognition of qualifications. With more than 30 years’ experience as an audit partner with EY, he has significant involvement at board level with many plcs, providing insight and best practice guidance regarding boards’ risk and corporate governance agendas. “In the Republic, a substantial amount of the work required for the audit qualification must be statutory audit work,” O’Neill said. “This means that, despite students spending a significant amount of their training supporting US FDI businesses with their US reporting requirements—and with much of this controls work also used in the statutory audits of Irish subsidiaries—it will not count towards qualification. “The same goes for experience gained in auditing UK subsidiaries by students based in the Republic. The Department of Enterprise Trade and Employment and the Irish Auditing and Accounting Supervisory Authority (IAASA) must be involved in finding a solution to this situation.” Sourcing overseas talent O’Neill noted that, as a growing economy, if Ireland cannot source sufficient accounting capacity at home, we must ensure that we do all we can to attract candidates with the necessary skills from other countries. “It is my steadfast belief that people and businesses achieve great things when they come together and that diversity of background and thought is key to any profession,” he said. “I benefited from my own upbringing from an early age in Shannon, Co. Clare, which was at the time perhaps a uniquely multinational community in the regions. “Early in my career in audit, I moved from Dublin to the UAE where I spent some time working in Dubai in the early nineties. I was thrown in at the deep end and had the opportunity to work with some companies over there that followed US accounting rules.   “That experience turned out to be incredibly useful for me professionally for many reasons, not least because—when I returned to Dublin in 1995—Ireland’s tech boom had begun and indigenous companies like CBT, Smartforce, Iona, and Trintech, were listing on the Nasdaq.  “The experience I had gained working with those companies in Dubai following US accounting rules was suddenly invaluable, so I know first-hand just how important experience gained in other jurisdictions can be in our career.” Chartered Accountants Ireland has been working closely with the government in recent months to promote the need to reduce application processing times for Critical Skills Employment Permits granted to accountants from outside the European Economic Area who have been hired to work here.  “The improvement now coming through in the processing time for such permits as a result has seen wait times reduced to six to eight weeks from as high as four months,” said O’Neill.  “Now, however, we must retain—and even improve upon—these shorter processing times to attract the right talent.” Northern Ireland Protocol  O’Neill highlighted the need for certainty and stability in the wake of the most recent Assembly Elections amid ongoing disagreement on the Northern Ireland Protocol.  “The Protocol remains a subject of debate now more than ever, and there is no doubt that challenges exist, but predictability and certainty are key for business and the economy in Northern Ireland,” he said.  “The Institute was an early advocate for the unique benefits of the Protocol for businesses located in Northern Ireland.  “We have almost 5,000 members there, and it is incumbent upon us to convey the positive feedback the Institute has received regarding the unique market access they have into both Britain and the EU.” Power of connection Now that the worst of the COVID-19 restrictions are behind us, O’Neill stressed the need for greater connection and acknowledged the crucial role played by the Institute in supporting a global network and helping to forge valuable professional and personal connections among members the world over.  “The benefit of networking to our 30,000+ members, and the critical importance of the physical interaction of our students, cannot be understated,” he said.    “We will continue to work towards a return of our networking events to pre-pandemic levels to the extent we can over the coming year. We have been highly successful in our innovations in training, and ability to shift to examining our students remotely through the pandemic.   “Through the Institute’s Education Department, and in conjunction with our training firms, we will be looking at how to achieve a balanced blend of online and physical learning delivery in the future to facilitate this interaction.”  O’Neill is a longstanding member of the Institute who has served on the Council of Chartered Accountants Ireland since 2014. He is a former Chair of the Institute’s Audit, Risk and Finance Board, and a former Chair of its Leinster Society.   “The importance of the Institute and our District Societies both here, across the Island of Ireland, and abroad in connecting—and now reconnecting—our members is not lost on me,” said O’Neill.  “I have benefited enormously from my membership over the years, and during my Presidency, my hope is that I can give back to the Institute and to all of our members whose commitment is so highly valued.” Global membership Established in 1888, Chartered Accountants Ireland today represents more than 30,000 members in over 90 countries and has responsibility for educating 7,000 students.   The Institute’s objective is to create opportunities for members and students, and ethical, sustainable prosperity for society.   It is a founding member of Chartered Accountants Worldwide, the international network of over one million Chartered Accountants. It also plays key roles in the Global Accounting Alliance, Accountancy Europe, and the International Federation of Accountants.     “The Institute is here to serve our members and students and I feel privileged to be able to support this effort in my role as President,” said O’Neill.  

As the recently appointed Vice-Chair of the International Sustainability Standards Board (ISSB), Sue Lloyd will play a key role in paving the way for a “global baseline” for reliable ESG investment criteria. Elaine O’Regan talks to the New Zealand-born former IASB Vice-Chair about what lies ahead in her new role.  Prior to taking up your role with the ISSB, you were Vice-Chair of the International Accounting Standards Board for six years. Looking back on it, what do you see as your most significant achievements in that role? Completing the international IFRS Standard for insurance contracts was definitely a high point, and also chairing the IFRS Interpretations Committee from 2017 to 2022, and making it more responsive. What does your appointment as Vice-Chair of the International Sustainability Standards Board mean to you professionally? How important do you think the work of the ISSB will be, and your role in it? I see this appointment as a really exciting opportunity for me professionally. Corporate reporting is at a real turning point where we are embracing the need for the broadest set of information about sustainability, risks and opportunities to help investors make informed decisions. I am really excited and honoured to be part of that process. The ISSB has a pivotal role to play in bringing more comparability and quality to reporting on sustainability risks around the world and building a more efficient system, both for the preparers, providing the information, and also for the investors consuming them. One of my key roles as Vice-Chair of the Board is to bring to bear the standard-setting approach of the IASB. My technical skills from that world, and my knowledge of financial reporting, will help me to bring that rigor to sustainability reporting for investors. How will the ISSB’s approach to standard-setting emulate or differ from that of the IASB? How will the two bodies coalesce and work together in the future? There will be a lot of similarity with the IASB, particularly in relation to due process and the thoroughness in which we approach our work. The ISSB wants to be really inclusive and build on the viewpoints of our stakeholders. We have that in common with the IASB. Obviously, the subject matter is different. Sustainability is a more nascent area of reporting, so we will have to work more closely with our ecosystem and really work with assurers and specialists in sustainability to build this new infrastructure for reporting. The ISSB is a sister board to the IASB, and that is great because it means we are part of the same foundation. It gives us the unique ability to sit together and work out the package of information we are asking for to meet investor needs, and to make sure that the reporting and the financial statements fit well together. When the IFRS talks about the ISSB establishing a “global baseline of sustainability standards” what does this mean, and why is it important for the ESG agenda globally? When we talk about a global baseline, what we really want to do is establish a set of disclosures that are sufficient to meet the needs of investors—to enable them to understand how sustainability, risks and opportunities affect the value of a company’s shares and its debt.  We want to provide a ‘set of information’ on companies around the world so that investors can make decisions based on consistent and comparable data. That is really what a global baseline means. It will happen in practice through a combination of two different mechanisms. One will be adoption or incorporation into the regulation in different countries, so that it becomes part of the mandatory reporting system for jurisdictions, in the same way that the IASB’s accounting standards have been mandated by jurisdictions around the world.  Complementing this, we expect there to be a lot of voluntary application of the standards, separate to the regulatory element, because this is a good way for preparers to understand what information is relevant to meet investor needs.   Tell us about the ISSB’s four core pillars – governance, strategy, risk management and metrics. How relevant is each one in the context of your overall mission? Our overall objective is to make sure that investors have the information they need to understand the effects of sustainability risks and opportunities on enterprise values, share price and the value of a company’s debt.  Our pillars are the prism we use to gather sustainability information from four different perspectives. One is how a company governs its risks, and how it is managing those risks and building them into its business strategy. We also look at the metrics they use to assess where they are now, to set their targets for the future and measure their progress in meeting their targets. This ‘package of information’ is designed to meet the investor’s needs, and, importantly, it is designed to encourage companies to think about how they govern and manage risks. How will the work of the ISSB support and help investors in respect of good environmental, social and governance (ESG) practice? What other ‘ESG stakeholders’ will benefit from your work? We know that there are different parties who are interested in information about sustainability, not just investors. We want to facilitate the provision of information to all of them. We want to make this an efficient reporting system for public policy purposes and for broader stakeholder groups beyond investors, for example. One of the aspects that we are focusing on here is what we call the “building block” approach.   This means that, when we are building our requirements, we have investors’ needs in mind, but we also want to make sure that others can add specific investor requirements onto our disclosures to meet broader needs. If we can avoid the need to have one set of disclosures for investors and a completely separate set for broader stakeholders, it is more efficient for those preparing the information. Tell us about the first draft ISSB standards, published in April. What do these draft standards provide for, how is the consultation process progressing and what will the next steps be? There are two documents. The first is the General Requirements Exposure Draft, which sets out the overarching requirements for what should be provided for in sustainability reporting.  It asks companies to provide information about all of their significant sustainability risks and opportunities relevant to enterprise value assessment.  It also sets out some other general ideas—for example, the fact that you should be able to understand how this information relates to the financial statements and the proposal that this information be provided at the same time as the financial statements. The second document is the Climate Exposure Draft, which sets out what specific disclosures should be provided by a company about climate risks and opportunity. This means that, if a company using the General Requirements Exposure Draft identifies climate risks and opportunities as a “significant” sustainability-related risk and opportunity, they can turn to the Climate Exposure Draft to find out what disclosures to provide.  That document is asking for information about the physical risks of climate change the company is exposed to—flood risk, for example—but also opportunities arising from climate change. If a company has developed a product, which may become more popular because of climate change, investors may want to hear about that as much as they would climate-related risk.  These drafts are out for comment until 29 July, 2022. Once we get the feedback, we will decide what we need to adjust, what we can keep as is, and then we will move on to the final requirements. How do you foresee the “roadmap” of additional draft standards rolling out beyond these first two? What standards are next on the agenda for consultation and what is the anticipated timeline for their introduction? Our next step will be to ask our stakeholders what they think we should prioritise after the General Requirements Exposure Draft and Climate Exposure Draft documents are approved.  We only have so much time, and the same is true for our stakeholders, so it is important to us to ascertain where the greatest needs lie. In other words, it is really up to the stakeholders to decide what we work on next. How will the International Sustainability Standards Board (ISSB) build on work already carried out by the Task Force on Climate-Related Financial Disclosures (TCFD) and the Sustainability Accounting Standards Board (SASB)? Our four core pillars (governance, strategy, risk management and metrics) are taken straight from TCFD recommendations, and they form the backbone of the proposals we have out for comment.  We have incorporated their structure and the climate disclosures included in the TCFD have been incorporated into our Climate Exposure Draft. We have built on SASB materials in two ways. Industry-based requirements in the appendix to the Climate Exposure Draft are taken from SASB’s industry-based standards.  We took the climate-related metrics and included those in the Climate Exposure Draft as part of the mandatory climate disclosures.  We are asking stakeholders to use SASB guidance to help them meet their disclosure requirements in the General Requirements Exposure Draft up until the time we draft more specific disclosure requirements of our own. How do you foresee the ISSB working alongside, and collaborating with, other standard-setting and regulatory bodies and initiatives like the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) the Global Reporting Initiative (GRI) and European Financial Reporting Advisory Group (EFRAG)? Having our proposals out for comment at the same time as the SEC and EFRAG proposals means that we have a unique opportunity to compare and contrast these different proposals and bring as much commonality as we can to our requirements. In an ideal world, we want to work together to build this global baseline and ensure as much consistency as possible with the SEC, EFRAG, the Global Reporting Initiative (GRI) and others.  We have a Working Group tasked with doing so with the US, Europe and also China, Japan and the UK. We are encouraging our stakeholders to write to the SEC and to let the commission know if they think that the global baseline is important.  The GRI is also very important and is a really good example of the ‘building block’ process that I described earlier.  We have a Memorandum of Understanding with GRI. One of our aims is to work together to form a global baseline we both agree on to meet investor needs and to encourage GRI to add the additional pieces of information to meet the broader information needs.

Mairead McGuinness, EU Commissioner for Financial Services, Financial Stability and Capital Markets Union, talks to Elaine O’Regan about her role in implementing sanctions to stop the “Kremlin war machine”, her ongoing contribution to the future of sustainable finance  and her role in laying the foundations for the Capital Markets Union. You’re 18 months into your role as EU Commissioner. What do you see as your most important achievements so far, and what are your priorities now? I am responsible for sanctions and their implementation by the Commission and this is top of my agenda right now, given the terrible war in Ukraine and the need to respond to Russian aggression. We want to cut off funding to the Kremlin war machine.  We’ve listed hundreds of individuals, including Vladimir Putin, his Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and dozens of oligarchs, which means their assets are frozen. They can’t be provided with funds, and they are also subject to travel bans.  We’ve cut Russian access to EU capital markets, including a full asset freeze on three Russian banks with strong links to the Russian state, excluding seven key Russian banks from Swift, and blocking Russia’s EU-held foreign exchange reserves.  We also have measures on energy, transport, dual-use technologies, trade, visas for diplomats and disinformation. And, we have sharpened sanctions against Belarus, so it cannot be used by Russia to evade our sanctions.  At the same time, we’ve been working closely with our partners, including the US, Britain, Canada, Australia, Japan and others, to impose comprehensive and complementary measures that ensure Russia’s illegal actions bear a high cost. The focus now is on making sure that the sanctions are properly implemented so they are as effective as possible – and we stand ready to put more sanctions in place as the situation evolves. Beyond this, over the past 18 months my work on sustainable finance and the contribution of finance to tackling climate change has been important, as well as work on building up the Capital Markets Union to give companies across the EU better access to finance.  I’m also passionate about using my role to highlight the importance of financial literacy. People should understand how the financial system works, how they can make the best use of their money, and be confident enough to ask the right questions about their personal finances. The Ukraine invasion has placed energy supply at the forefront of the EU agenda. How do you expect the situation in Ukraine, and its impact on the flow of energy supply globally, to influence the policy initiatives laid out in the EU Green Deal?  Russia’s aggression against Ukraine makes a rapid transition to clean energy more urgent than ever. We’re too dependent on Russian gas. We must have a reliable, secure, and affordable supply of energy for Europe.  We already have the Green Deal indicating where we need to go, but Russia’s aggression has brought into very sharp focus our vulnerabilities and why we need to accelerate the transition to a more sustainable economy.  The Commission adopted a plan in March – REPowerEU – with new ways to ramp up green energy production, diversify supplies, and reduce demand for Russian gas.  The financial system has a key role to play in the Green Deal. The goal is both “to green finance” and “to finance green” to help the financial sector become sustainable and to make sure that the financial sector provides the money for business to become sustainable.  We’ve put clear and consistent rules in place, namely the EU Taxonomy, a disclosure regime for non-financial and financial companies; and investment tools, including benchmarks and standards like the European Green Bond Standard.  We are now increasingly moving to the implementation phase to make sure these rules are effective.  How far along is the Taxonomy at this point, and what are the next steps in the pipeline for the year ahead? What do companies operating in the EU need to know? The Taxonomy helps signpost the way for private investment to contribute to our climate goals: it provides clear definitions for sustainable economic activities. Companies can use it to plan their transition and to show the market what they are doing.  Last year, we adopted the first rules on activities that make a substantial contribution to adapting to and mitigating climate change.  They cover 170 economic activities, representing about 40 per cent of listed companies in the EU, in sectors responsible for around 80 per cent of direct greenhouse gas emissions in Europe.  The rules are applicable from January 2022. We have also specified how market players should disclose the extent that their activities are taxonomy-aligned. We’ve put forward proposals for how gas and nuclear can make a contribution to the transition to sustainability. We have not designated gas and nuclear as “green”, but we have recognised the specific role certain nuclear and gas activities can play in the transition to full sustainability, subject to very strict conditions and phase-out periods. This proposal is now under scrutiny by the European Parliament and the Member States. We have work to do on including more sectors in the Taxonomy and we will be preparing details on the four remaining environmental objectives – water quality, circular economy, biodiversity, and pollution prevention. The International Sustainability Standards Board (ISSB) is expected to put its first set of standards to public consultation later this month. How do you foresee the EU Commission working with the ISSB to progress the wider ESG reporting agenda?  The EU has been the global leader on sustainable finance. We are ahead when it comes to the contribution of the financial system to tackling climate change. So, we’ve gone further than others, and we’ve done that faster – which is important given the urgency of the climate challenge. But, of course, the climate challenge is global, and markets are global too. So, we are fully engaged in efforts on global standards. EU sustainability reporting standards have shown the way, to a great extent, and informed the international context.  We see global standards as a common baseline that allow us to go further to meet the ambition set out in the EU Green Deal.  At a practical level, the body that drafts EU accountancy and sustainability standards – the European Financial Reporting Advisory Group (EFRAG) – has established close cooperation with the ISSB. The CSRD proposal – and the reporting standards that will be part of it – will ensure that corporates disclose sustainability information that underpin the rest of the sustainable finance agenda.  EU standards must be coherent with the EU’s political ambitions and with our existing framework for sustainable finance, including the Taxonomy and the Sustainable Finance Disclosure Regulation.  From the beginning, EU standards will cover all ESG topics under a double materiality perspective – companies will have to report about how sustainability issues affect them and about their own impact on society and the environment.  In contrast, the standards set by the ISSB only look at risks to companies, but not at the impact of companies, and in the first instance they are focusing on climate.  EU standards will build on and contribute to global standardisation initiatives. We should build on what exists, and seek as much compatibility as possible, while also meeting Europe’s specific needs. At the recent IIF Sustainable Finance Summit, UBS Chairman Axel Weber said “banks can be a facilitator of channelling money into the right uses for a carbon transformation of the economy, but it’s not a banking issue.” What’s your take on this stance? All financial institutions, including banks, but others too, need to play their part in the transition to climate neutrality and improve their environmental performance as part of their financing, lending, and underwriting activities.  Financial institutions should integrate EU sustainability goals into their long-term financing strategies and investment decision-making processes.  We will help them accelerate their contribution to the transition, by reinforcing science-based target setting, disclosure and effectiveness of decarbonisation action, but also monitoring the financial sector’s commitments. The Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive (CSRD) is being viewed as a crucial step in bringing sustainable reporting on par with financial reporting. It will require assurance on non-financial statements, however. Who do you foresee this responsibility falling to? The CSRD proposal requires statutory auditors to give an opinion on sustainability reporting – the idea is to ensure that the sustainability information disclosed is credible.  This will require statutory auditors to have the necessary skills in the assurance of sustainability reporting, helping to ensure that financial and sustainability information is connected and consistent.  We are mindful of the potential risk that the audit market could become even more concentrated, however. That’s why the proposal allows Member States to accredit independent assurance service providers to verify sustainability reporting. The proposal for the EU Green Bond Standard was published by the European Commission in July 2021 as part of the Strategy for Financing the Transition to a Sustainable Economy. Tell us about this proposed regulation.  Green bonds offer a great opportunity for financial markets to directly support the transition to a climate-neutral economy. They bring issuers reputational benefits and sometimes also a lower cost of funding.  They give investors transparency about how companies allocate their money. So green bonds make business sense as well as climate sense — and the market is booming. Last year, after many years of on average 40 percent growth, issuance increased by another 65 percent compared to the previous year.  However, there are some challenges. As new issuers enter the market, there is less consensus on what is green. This means more effort for issuers to prove their green credentials, and more work for investors to check them.  Companies acting as external reviewers of green bonds help investors navigate this complex landscape, but the wide range of methodologies they use can also be a source of confusion.  That’s why in July 2021, the Commission adopted a legislative proposal for a European green bond standard, as part of its work to guide investors towards greener investments. The overall aim is to create a new gold standard available to all green bond issuers on a voluntary basis.  While building on market best practice on reporting and external review, this standard would add two important new elements. First, full alignment with the EU Taxonomy, to ensure that funds raised by these bonds are spent on economic activities that are sustainable. Second, supervision by ESMA of external reviewers that provide opinions on the alignment with the standard.  There is already a lot of interest from both issuers and investors. But, in the end, success depends on whether we keep the environmental ambition high, and the unnecessary burden on issuers low. Negotiations are ongoing in the European Parliament and the Council, and we are hoping that an agreement can be reached as soon as possible.   You recently indicated that a bill to introduce a digital euro may be tabled in the EU in early 2023, providing a legislative framework for the ongoing work of the European Central Bank on a digital version of the euro. What are the potential benefits of introducing this digital euro? A digital euro would be to complement cash – which remains vital – and other means of payment provided by the private sector.  A digital euro would provide a digitalised form of money backed by a central bank, which would be designed to allow everyone to use it, from the tech savvy to those excluded by the financial system. How exactly it should be designed to meet those goals is currently being examined.  Other countries are working on or are already issuing central bank digital currencies, and the use of stablecoins is increasing. A digital euro would strengthen the EU’s ability to determine its own course and maintain the autonomy of EU monetary policy.  The digital euro raises challenges, but also opportunities. This is why we are working hand in hand with the ECB and listening to all stakeholders on this key project.  The ECB would be responsible for issuing any digital euro, while the Commission would need to put forward the legislative framework to allow the ECB to do so.  Currently, we are looking at early 2023 to introduce the proposal to give time for the Parliament and EU Member States to work before the ECB would decide how and whether to issue a digital euro. The EU is responding to the need for improved online security for cryptocurrencies with the Markets in Crypto-Assets Regulation and Digital Operational Resilience Act. What do you see as the biggest risks in this area? Unfortunately, the level of operational resilience in the crypto-asset space is not good enough. There are also a lot of hacks and thefts.  The Markets in Crypto-Assets Regulation (MiCA) will bring crypto into the regulated space and will mean that crypto service providers are covered by financial services legislation.  MiCA will put in place consumer protection measures and limit the risk of fraudulent behaviour in the market.  The Digital Operational Resilience Act (DORA) is for the whole of the financial services sector, to ensure ICT risks are better managed by financial companies. When MiCA enters into force, crypto service providers will have to adhere to the highest levels of operational resilience, as they will also be covered by DORA. DORA and MiCA are currently part of negotiations between the EU institutions. 

Brian Keegan, Director of Advocacy and Voice at Chartered Accountants Ireland, talks to Gabriel Makhlouf, Governor of the Central Bank of Ireland, about the changing regulatory landscape, the challenges facing businesses after a tumultuous two years, and the need for greater financial literacy. We think of the Central Bank as a regulatory body, but it is a very large entity. Can you talk to us about your management style and your personal approach to managing a large, highly-qualified staff? The Central Bank plays a very important role across the financial system, particularly when dealing with people who work in risk and control functions. This is essential in ensuring that the financial system ultimately works in the best interests of consumers and the wider economy. We have strong, established relationships with auditors based on solid foundations with open communications and this is a crucial relationship for us. I joined the Inland Revenue in New Zealand when I finished studying and I am a public servant, essentially, by profession. I trained as a tax inspector and I had a lot of dealings with accountants in the UK before I moved on to different things. As a leader, there are a number of things that are really important to me. It is really important that the organisation is clear about its mission and vision, and that senior management makes that happen. People in leadership roles need to help the organisation to be clear on its mission and vision. This helps to promote focus and priority-setting. I would like to think that the mission and vision of the Central Bank are clear. We are responsible for monetary and financial stability; making sure that the financial system works in the interests of consumers and the wider economy. We want to be trusted by the public. This is the dominant theme that I have been engaging with staff about since I took up my role. When the Central Bank was established in 1942, the legislation establishing the bank stated that the predominant aim of the Central Bank was the welfare of the people. This is an important statement which I still use.  Are you satisfied that you are achieving this? Yes, I am. I certainly think we can do better. For the people who come to work at the Central Bank every day, I think that sense of public service is really important. I think what we probably do not do well enough is to explain to people how our various policies ultimately promote the welfare of the people as a whole. As an example, our mortgage measures have a very specific purpose which has to do with financial stability, with indebtedness and with over leveraging, among other things. Underpinning all of that, from our perspective, is promoting the welfare of the whole country. That is very important to me. As I have said previously, we need to be accountable to the public in an engaging and transparent way with key performance indicators. I put a big premium on diversity of thought and an organisation like the Central Bank must reflect this. I also think it is important for leaders to be ambitious for their organisations and I am ambitious for the Central Bank. Leaders need to focus on the stewardship of their organisations. We need to spend as much time thinking about how to ensure the organisation will be fit for purpose for our successors, as well as for us. That puts a premium on leaders to look ahead, to understand their context and also to understand what their context will be in the medium-term, not just over the next year. We need to be able to accept that change is constant and happening in our external environment faster than it has ever before. Organisations like the Central Bank are all about people and the recruitment, development of staff is crucial for any organisation. Following on from that point, can you talk about the challenges managing an organisation in a pandemic? One of the legacies of the pandemic is how we are going to manage hybrid working. I think this is an underappreciated challenge and I think, personally, that remote working is unsustainable over the medium-term.  At the Central Bank, most of us have worked from home for almost two years. A small number of us have been coming in every day because we had no option. For the first three months of the pandemic, this worked extremely smoothly.  As time has gone on, people have changed jobs. People have left the Central Bank and new people have joined us. These new recruits have not physically been in the bank or met their colleagues. They have not had the experience of learning by observing. You learn a lot by observing what other people are doing and by asking impromptu questions. Over the medium-term, organisations such as ours require a strong culture and the ability to bring fresh people in. Our strength is in our collective effectiveness. We are going to have to work out how we can get away from remote working, but we are not going to go back to where we were. We are going to move to hybrid working. This will lead to new challenges and we are going to have to try to discover how to deal with these challenges. There will be people who will prefer to stay at home, but I know there are many other people who want to come into the office. Diversity and inclusion tend to be about gender and colour, disability and sexuality, but I can see a new diversity challenge in dealing with people who don’t want to come into the office and dealing with people who do.  What is your perception of the global economy after Brexit and the expectation that a lot of business will move to places like Dublin from the UK? Has this proven to be the case and has Dublin benefited from the so-called ‘Brexit bounce’? Brexit has led to a lot of financial services coming to Ireland in terms of the arrival of new entities and the expansion of entities that are already here. It has to be pointed out that Brexit is not over and the process of financial services adjusting to whatever constitutes the ‘new normal’, is ongoing.  Brexit has had an effect on increasing financial services in Dublin and it might have a continuing effect in the future but this also applies to Paris and Amsterdam. I expect that financial services in the EU will grow more than we would have expected before the Brexit referendum in the UK. This does not mean that London and the UK will not continue to be important financial centres, but I think you will see growth elsewhere in the EU. From a financial services standpoint, the UK’s exit from the EU has been relatively smooth and well-managed from all sides but there are still issues that will have to be debated at political level.  What is the Central Bank’s view of the departure of some banks, including KBC Bank and Ulster Bank, from the Irish market? Is there a need to fill that gap in the market and have you a strategy to address this issue? That is a very interesting question. After the global financial crisis, credit availability for Irish SMEs during the recovery phase post-2013 improved dramatically. There were a lot of policy initiatives that were very helpful and, compared to a lot of the rest of the world, the Irish government’s focus in this area was pretty strong.  We had the establishment of the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland (SBCI), the introduction of the Future Growth Loan Scheme, the setting up of the Credit Review Office, and the Loan Guarantee Scheme. All of these things were very important for Irish business.  One of the interesting things our research has shown is that in the years preceding the pandemic and during the pandemic itself, the drag on credit flows to SMEs seemed to be driven predominantly by a weak demand for financing from SMEs rather than by a weak credit supply on behalf of lenders. In a European context, Irish SMEs had among the lowest application rates for credit. From the point of view of the Irish economy, the most important thing is that there is credit available for businesses to use when they need it and that is why it is interesting that Irish SMEs are slight outliers in terms of their demand. The departure from the market of KBC Bank and Ulster Bank poses risks for borrowers. Ulster Bank itself was the third largest player in terms of lending to SMEs. Fewer players in the market means higher prices, lower volumes and less service choice. No doubt, the Competition And Consumer Protection Commission will be paying close attention to these developments. What we are seeing is that digital operators in fintech and non-bank intermediaries are expanding their lending to business. Our own statistics team has found that the share of lending to Irish SMEs from the non-bank sector is already above one third in some sectors.  Access to alternative sources of finance will become easier, cheaper and faster. Core financing from Irish banks will continue to be absolutely key to Irish business, but it will be interesting to see what impact the competition that is now emerging will have on the wider market. The challenges for the big corporate legacy banks are not dissimilar to what large institutions in other economic sectors are facing. They become big, they become cumbersome and they are suddenly faced by competition from entities that are more agile. I suspect that the Government’s Retail Banking Review will look at some of these issues. Will these developments pose new challenges for the Central Bank? We published our new strategy in December 2021. A lot of our focus in the past has been about fixing the problems of the financial crisis. With the new strategy, we are  going to pivot and increasingly focus on the challenges we will face in the future. One of these challenges is regulating and supervising the rapidly changing financial services landscape. That is going to be a very significant focus for us. We are already seeing issues that give me cause for concern. Crypto is an unregulated market and there are real risks to businesses and consumers in this area. The regulatory world is gearing up to take action, but it is something that we in the Central Bank are going to keep a very close eye on. Technology is accelerating the need to address the issue of financial literacy. I have always been a proponent of the education system having a component that helps young people to understand how finance works. What I have seen in crypto is the ease of putting your money into some of these ventures. There is an increasing risk, in my opinion, that young people using their mobile phones to access crypto are going to get into trouble. Would it be fair to say that there is a greater awareness in New Zealand of the role of the government institutions than there is in Ireland? That may be true, but it would depend on what part of New Zealand you visit. If you go to Wellington, the capital of New Zealand, the working life of the city is dominated by government. When you meet people in the streets of Wellington, you will find that they are working in government or their partners are working in government. This is not necessarily the case in Auckland or in other parts of the country. Certainly, the Treasury, which I led in New Zealand, had a very strong brand. This stemmed from the fact the Treasury in the mid-1980s and early 1990s played a very large part in the overall reforms that New Zealand went through. I think there is a much bigger commercial sector in Dublin than in Wellington, whereas in Wellington the public sector dominates.  Can we talk about the challenges of money laundering? Are we doing enough to counter this problem and what can we do to counteract the problem? It is an issue that we need to address, and the EU has decided to set up a new agency to tackle money laundering. I think we also have to ask questions about how seriously the community views white collar crime. We need regulators, financial professionals and politicians to align themselves to dealing with money laundering. In my view, the whole issue of the conduct of financial services, particularly in banking, has to be addressed. As a community, we need to say that money laundering is unacceptable and we need to do something about it. Thank you for taking the time to speak to us today, Governor. Thank you.